Options Trade Alert: Autodesk (ADSK) open put

TRADE INSTRUCTIONS

Date: May 22, 2018
Name: Autodesk
Symbol (Exchange): ADSK (NasdaqGS)
Type: Long put option to open
Expiration: June 1, 2018
Strike Price: 137.00
Limit: Buy below $5
Symbol: ADSK180601P00137000

TRADE RATIONALE       

Autodesk, a manufacturer of 3D software design tools, is scheduled to release Q1 results this Thursday after the market close (5:00 p.m. EST). This trade is a bet that the long-awaited transition to profitability will be achieved, but will be accompanied by forward guidance intended to temper expectations for the remainder of the year due to compliance with ASC 606 (explained below).

First, you have to wonder why the company chose to release earnings the day before the extended Memorial Day weekend. If the numbers and guidance are going to be stronger than expected, then moving the announcement up a day or two would give traders on Wall Street more time to drive up the share price before taking off for their beach houses in the Hamptons the next day.

More importantly, so much hype is already priced into the stock that anything short of a blowout quarter could quickly push the stock down to where it was trading before it released year-end results three months ago, which is below $120 (there is support at $123, but breakeven is at $132 so a drop to $127 would represent a 100% gain on this option if purchased at our limit price). 

Lost in the excitement surrounding those results was this statement appended to the end of the document:

Starting with the first quarter of fiscal 2019, Autodesk is adopting the new revenue accounting standard, ASC 606.

  • We will be applying the modified retrospective transition method.
  • We do not believe the new standard will result in a change in timing or amount of the recognition of revenue for the majority of our product subscription offerings and enterprise agreements.
  • We will be required to capitalize and amortize sales commissions under the new standard.
  • We do not expect a significant impact on reported expenses for the full fiscal year, however, the timing of when we recognize the deferred commissions by quarter will vary compared to our historical seasonality.
  • None of the ASC 606 impacts affect cash flow.

Although the company states that adoption of ASC 606 will have a material impact on revenue recognition or cash flow, many companies that have transitioned to ASC 606 have had to restate earnings downward by a larger degree than analysts expected.

So far, the company’s saving grace is the fact that 99% of its outstanding shares are owned by institutions, scaring away short sellers that require an exit strategy. Five of its top ten mutual fund holders are index funds, which has worked in its favor as its share price has appreciated nearly 40% since bottoming out three months ago.

Those funds must buy more of the stock to retain its relative weighting in the index. However, that degree of sponsorship by index funds can also compound losses when its share price starts heading the other way.

Note: For those of you using Dr. Leeb’s “3 Pot” system, this is a Pot 3 trade (i.e., “house money”). That means don’t bet the ranch since this option expires in ten days.

Stock Talk

Asjad Shamim

Asjad Shamim

Executed @ $4.96

JoeJB

JoeJB

Filled at $4.89 around 2:45

Michael D

Michael D

I am in @$4.95.
thanks Jim.

Claude

Claude

Filled at 4.90

Cyan

Cyan

Just got filled in ADSK put for 4.80

Ajax

Ajax

Why is ADSK doing well? I don’t mean today, though I would have expected it to tank at least with the rest of the market. I mean, why has the stock price gone up in a somewhat volatile but straight line since the beginning of 2016? This streak of growth began just as their earnings turned and stayed negative for two straight calendar years. I have seen much irrationality in pricing before, but this one is so contrarian it has me baffled.

Jim Pearce

Jim Pearce

Autodesk has been in the right place at the right time with respect to its 3D design software. There is nothing wrong with its product, but there is a double standard applied to valuing tech stocks that generate very little or no profits but are growing revenue. Since none of the traditional ratios that use earnings can be applied to stocks like ADSK, a different set of metrics are measured and then converted to future profitability several years into the future and discounted to the present to come up with a “fair value” (Amazon is the poster child for this approach). From a purely mathematical perspective, that technique is fine so long as the expected future earnings actually materialize as projected. However, even a slight downward revision to those future earnings can have a magnified effect due to the degree of extrapolation being used.

Ajax

Ajax

Thanks Jim for the explanation. That helps.

Daniel Long

Daniel Long

AdSK Jun 1 137 Put bought
@ 4.94.
DL

ETKTRIDE

ETKTRIDE

ADSK – filled @ $4.90 (IB)

Dramatic License

Dramatic License

I’m in at $4.65. I really hope this one works out. I need some good news.

Rick

Rick

I jumped in today after the large move up (almost $2.50) and bought the June (1) $140 Put at $5.85. On such a short expiration date, I’m willing to pay a little more for safety.

Dramatic License

Dramatic License

Did ADSK release earnings? It is down this morning, but I haven’f round anything about earnings yet today.

Jim Pearce

Jim Pearce

They are not scheduled to release their quarterly report until 2 p.m. Pacific (5 p.m. Eastern), i.e., after today’s market close so any trading today is, in theory, purely speculative.

Dramatic License

Dramatic License

Thanks, Jim. I had it in my head that earnings were coming after close, but didn’t find anything. Thanks for the information.

Jim Pearce

Jim Pearce

John N

John N

ADSK Put at $4.90 today

John N

John N

I sold this afternoon for $5.54. Not bad for a 24 hour period (!)
I couldn’t wait to see what happens next week as I now have to go out to the Mid-West for a family bereavement and I won’t have access to a wireless connection or maybe even a cell tower where I’m going! Happy Memorial Weekend to all!

Jim Pearce

Jim Pearce

ADSK dropped $6 after releasing quarterly results (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/autodesks-first-quarter-results-led-200100772.html). Will be interesting to see how it performs tomorrow when the program trading kicks in, but so far this trade is working out the way I expected. With so little float, ADSK could be extremely volatile tomorrow.

Dramatic License

Dramatic License

Do you think it’s better to try to wait a bit tomorrow, or try to push through an after hours trade now? I could see it going down even further, but no idea.

Jim Pearce

Jim Pearce

I’d wait until tomorrow, but would be ready to pull the trigger if it trades down to $127 or lower. There isn’t much float in the stock, so if a bunch of index funds all try to sell it at once then that could create a temporary imbalance between supply and demand that could cause the stock to plummet until those orders are executed, at which time it could rebound strongly.

ETKTRIDE

ETKTRIDE

Hi Jim

Very new to options trading and your service so hopefully you will permit me to ask:

On a Big move down like you referenced with ADSK ($131.92 after hours as I am writing this post), is it still prudent to keep the option open until Expiration Friday (June 1st) or will you be looking to exit the position early once the dust settles tomorrow (also given the fact this is a holiday weekend, as you alluded to in your original recommendation)?

Just trying to wrap my head around options trading so your guidance is greatly appreciated

hope this questions wast too crazy or even worse (already answered elsewhere)

Thanks for your recommendations and have a great weekend!

Michael

Jim Pearce

Jim Pearce

Hi Micheal. As I said to DL (below), since ADSK has so little float I’d be ready to pull the trigger if it trades below $127 at any time between now and expiration. Once all the index funds have adjusted its weighting in their portfolios by selling it, the stock could rebound sharply so waiting until expiration may not provide the maximum return.

Rick

Rick

Go figure

Jim Pearce

Jim Pearce

Don’t pay too much attention to how ADSK opens since there are a lot of preset limit orders that need to clear before we have a more accurate read on how it is trading.

Asjad Shamim

Asjad Shamim

Thanks Jim for the advise… When i opened i was like what happened here 🙂

Jim Pearce

Jim Pearce

It’s starting to tank now, the $136 option just traded at $5.32 so $131 appears to be the over/under at the moment.UPDATE: there is also a bid now at $4.05 for the 133 strike price, implying a $129 breakeven.

Dramatic License

Dramatic License

Very frustrating. It does what we want and I am still in the hole on this.

Michael D

Michael D

ya go figure is what I say too Rick, ADSK is down 6 bucks- in our favor- so I thought- and we are losing money mid day??
why is that, can anyone explain it please?

Dan

Dan

There are two components to option price, intrinsic value and time value. Yesterday before earnings we had 0 intrinsic value (stock was above 137) and 100% time value.
Today, the time value has vanished because there is no more earnings report (the uncertainty is gone, no surprise expected before it expires next Friday). While we’ve lost in time, we’ve gained in intrinsic because it’s several bucks below 137. However it hasn’t fallen far enough for us to make significant money.
Looks like a break evenish trade.

Jim Pearce

Jim Pearce

All that is true, but now the fun begins since this option doesn’t expire for another week. Between now and then, there will be two competing forces at work: the company and its major investors will do what they can to keep the stock price from falling too far by purchasing stock when it drops below a certain price, and short sellers and index funds that are rebalancing will be putting downward pressure on the stock at the same time. There is no way of knowing which side will win, so there is nothing wrong with taking a modest profit now to ensure a positive outcome. As for me, I’m going to hang in there until next week (unless the stock tanks again this afternoon), understanding I that I risk giving back some or all of that intrinsic value along the way.

Michael D

Michael D

Dan/Jim (or anyone who reads this):

As I continue to learn about options, I get the intrinsic value part of the equation but doesn’t the Black-Scholes formula for options indicate that there is (should be) time value remaining in an option right up until the last minute of the last day of an option?

ADSK still baffles me from last week even though I exited it. I thought I was getting a good grasp on options.

Thanks.

Dan

Dan

Full disclosure, I’m someone who does this part time & outsources his research to Jim. Don’t take me too seriously.
You are correct that there is always a time value. There was a time value on Friday. I sold at 5.10 while the stock was above 132, meaning the intrinsic was less than 5.00. What was interesting about this trade was how the time value went from ~5$ on Thursday to less than 0.50$ on Friday. That drop was the difference between unknown earnings report and known earnings report.
Basically on Thursday and before, if you wanted the option to sell at 137 with unknown earnings, the option sellers demanded a price of 5 dollars and they wanted that as a buffer in case earnings were bad. After earnings were released, those selling options didn’t want nearly as much of a buffer.
The time value is subjective and it’s worth in real dollars with whatever people are willing to trade for it. There’s no real formula for how traders will ultimately value something.
One last thing to watch for in options is volume and open interest. In options that are low on both, it can be harder to exit at a good price as there isn’t much of a market of buyers. When I was doing this on my own, I wouldn’t touch anything with less than 3k open interest and I wanted 10k+ open interest as a general rule.

Dan

Dan

So should we be trying to hold this over the weekend or exiting with what we can get today?

Dan

Dan

Ignore this, my sale at 5.10 triggered. Small profit but no risk going forward. Best of luck to all staying in, I hope you make me regret bailing out.

Dramatic License

Dramatic License

I bailed at a tiny profit. I figure the trade is 50-50 at this point and it’s not a trade I would enter at this point, so getting out seems like the smart call. It could still end up with a big gain, but it’s disappointing it didn’t drop enough to get that gain this morning.

Jim Pearce

Jim Pearce

I hear you. At a share price of $132, ADSK has only given up the past three weeks of gain; not enough, in my opinion, given its revised earnings outlook. I’m willing to gamble that at some point over the next week it tests it short-term support near $125, understanding that may not happen. btw, this is why the company chose the Thursday evening before Memorial Day weekend to release its report. It knew that there wouldn’t be enough volume today to do a lot of damage. It is hoping that by this Tuesday everyone will have forgotten about it and moved on to other news.

Michael D

Michael D

Thanks for the e chat, explanations and sharing your POViews. It helps me fight off fear and greed.
I plugged in a 5.20 limit and it filled at $5.24 about an hour ago.
5.8 percent return for 3 days. Won’t be thinking about this one over the long weekend for me.
thank you, Jim!

Jim Pearce

Jim Pearce

ADSK dropping further this morning testing $130, so anyone that still has an open put option expiring this Friday should keep a close eye on it.

ETKTRIDE

ETKTRIDE

Thanks Jim,

I bailed on ADSK this morning at $7.60 CR (IB) – bought @ $4.91

Great return for 7 days!!!

Michael

Jim Pearce

Jim Pearce

Michael – Good work, I love seeing our readers book 50% gains in a week! Thanks for sharing your success with all of us. Jim

DJ

DJ

ADSK sold( earlier this afternoon) at 7.65 and bought at 4.35 on the day of alert.

Nice profit in short term. I love it.

Cheers, Jim!!!

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